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fellowship and prayer …cuz they wanted to »

by Simon Cooper

Had a long but good community leaders meeting today. Gave a little power point on time management too, which felt good. But By 5pm I was really wiped out. Cancelled one evening meeting, but still had our regular Wednesday prayer evening at 7.30pm. Watched some TV to unwind, since we have a big screen now in our reception area. It never really works for me, TV, when I need to de stress.

Went up to our main hall to prepare the chairs etc at around 6.50pm and light the prayer candle.

some times we need others to shed light on our state of mind

Still feeling a bit fried. wondering if anyone was going to come, feeling a bit shaky, I knew there were some people in the building, but hey maybe they’re not up for it tonight…you can guess where my mind and heart were going. Was doing a reasonable job of coming to terms with what I had decided was a solitary evening. (God’s telling me: “leave that for me to decide”, not that I was listening.)

Especially by 7.30pm on my watch, I am thinking ‘yep I’m on my own’. I am half German – everything should start as the second hand strikes 12.

Decided to go down and see if everyone had opted to watch the football instead and thought I might invite people up. But as I was going down, people were on their way up – the guys who were in LG to practice for Live Lounge, Masa from our HQ congregation, and Aska from Bromley who had been helping in the UPF office.

That prayer evening tonight was seriously the best part of my day. I felt that we could not know how precious it was for God that we came together to pray. We sang a few songs, I asked everyone for their thoughts on some notes I took from Hyung Jin Moon’s talk. And then I asked Aska to pray – she shared the most exquisite prayer that just gave me the chance to wash my face clean. Then we prayed altogether for a while.

giving thanks

I was so grateful to those young people for just being there and giving me the chance to pray with them. I had been pretty wound up and strung out from an intense day, and had got into my ‘no one wants to pray thought-train’, but they just came because they wanted to and through that example lifted me up and out of my fear. Thanks guys.

Thank you for your comments, though I do not deserve getting such comments from you. And thank you very much for keep organising prayer evening. I am sure that our heavenly father and true parents cry in joy when they see you working so hard for it. Hope you have great weekend.

Asuka Ohagi - 20 June 2010

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fresh blood »

by Simon Cooper

In HQ we have been planning and experimenting together with our community pastors over the last two weeks to develop a national outreach campaign. Our international president, Hyung Jin Moon, has been making himself visible out on the streets of Seoul witnessing, and also encouraging our world-wide membership to share the good news of True Parents and all that they bring to this world as the returning Christ.

figuring out the message

We are doing our best to plan a national campaign to allow for as many of us as possible to get involved. I want to share with you the skeleton timeline that we have come up with:
22nd March – 11th April:
• Printing and mailing leaflets
• Promoting and presenting campaign vision to congregation
• 21 days of spiritual devotion

12th – 25th April:
• 2 weeks of focused outreach with 360 leaflets per member

25th April – 16th May:
• 3 week message series with a theme for new guests in each local church
(Prepare in advance hospitality team in each church to welcome and involve guests in fellowship. Prepare people to teach.)
4th – 6th June
• Weekend Divine Principle workshop (30 new guests/30 new members)

Goal and focus:
• Join together in spirit with True Parents and Hyung Jin Nim as they make a new start with the new Cheon Il Guk calendar and the new temple.
• Bring spiritual revival to our congregation.
• Bring a new culture of celebrating and sharing our faith in True Parents and the spiritual power of the Divine Principle.
• Welcome new members to our local church communities.

as Matt Damon says in Green Zone: "get your game face on - we're going in..."

I have started going out again over the last month to witness in the street and reach out to friends inside our church community and also beyond. What has struck me is how much this work is like a living prayer. As I share what I believe everything comes into focus, and I am guided to understand more deeply what my faith is about. We all need that. It’s similar to my experience of starting to take on our Lancaster Gate HQ church. When our vision and ideas are related to something tangible they come into focus; we can evaluate and start to see more clearly. (Principle of Creation 3.2)
For me what it means to be a member of our Unification Movement is to worship God (every day and with others), tithe, teach the Principle, and bring people to True Parents so that they may experience rebirth. We need to get ourselves some tangible steps in these different areas so that being a church member becomes clearer for our life. As long as it remains vague I am wasting not only God’s time, but my own.
The other experience I had is that I need to be a witness as well as do outreach. (It’s a divine principle to be and to do.) I need to be a witness to my wife, to my children, members of our community, my wider circle of friends, and to new people I meet. But especially within my family and community it needs to happen everyday. And this is when it gets personal: we are learning how to share God’s love and True Parents’ love that we have experienced. To be a witness I have to cultivate something to share.
This is why we want to start with 3 weeks of spiritual revival. We are preparing in HQ tonight by having a reading of all 28 chapters of the Book of Acts from the New Testament. We hope to read that between 9pm – midnight. Now if you are already outreaching and feeling like a witness or want to get started straight away then go for it! I know many of you are already doing a lot to reach out, and spiritual revival of course does not exclude outreach. We just felt we need to make conditions together in our community to bring the Holy Spirit into our relationships and personal lives.
There is a lot more to say, and probably lots more questions to answer, but maybe this is enough for now.

Just to conclude: let’s make this a successful campaign where we learn from our experience, grow through our mistakes, and celebrate with each other when we bare fruit. I believe we will come out the other side in better spiritual shape, like a body with fresh blood being pumped through it.

Greetings from Australia I was happy to see your outreach article above" Fresh Blood" We need to inspire each other with our action & thoughts. In Australia we are badly in need of a revival. Our National Leader had a heart attack so we are looking for a new leader. These things motivated me to work on a National plan with witnessing as the cornerstone & unity as the foundation. Reach 51% of the population, use modern technologies & traditional one on one methods. Top down witnessing to clergy, groups etc. Have confidence to proclaim the Messiah, give out Father's autobiography on CDs or books. There are many ways and possibilities. We are in the planning stage, any advice or more details of your plans would be much appreciated. Also your results would be inspiring & motivating to hear Regards Alan Smith

Alan Smith - 21 March 2010

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A violin in the wind »

by Larry Moffitt

Shoveling the sidewalk and driveway today. It was snowing like a busted pillow and I went out to shovel, thinking I could keep up with it. I finished one pass and turned around to see the pavement was quickly being covered again. “Hey!” I shouted to heaven, “I just finished this and you’re covering it up again.”

The only sound was “the sweep of easy wind and downy flake,” as Robert Frost wrote. That’s okay, I wasn’t looking for an answer. I think sometimes God just enjoys keeping company.

It‘s good to spend time meditating. There are countless ways to do it and all of them work. You sit in silence in a church. In a zendo, wearing comfortable, loose-fitting clothing. Outside in the garden with the sun on your back and insect sounds. On a treadmill in a gym. Chopping wood. Lolling in a hammock. Washing dishes. God transmits on all those frequencies and, if it has been important to you, you have put some work into tuning your soul’s instrument to receive that voice clearly on your unique frequency. Maybe you’re like Kyle Toffey who prays while driving. I like to have a notebook when God shows up, but that’s me. I have never gotten anything done in unison prayer, with everyone screaming and lifting the roof off. Others have meaningful experiences with it.

Orwell said, at age 50 every man has the face he deserves. This is somewhat true in that you have become a vessel made up of your laugh lines and your tears. Both your deadly lies and your secret integrities unknown to others are in there as well. All your deeds, nuances and brutalities, gross motor and fine motor. Your money and how you came by it. These become your face and the frequency that connects you to heaven’s inspirations.

A violin held just right in the wind, will hum. You resonate perfectly, so that when you hear God’s voice, it is unmistakable to your heart, and only you can hear it. The gal next to you hears God’s voice on a different frequency, based on the unique molecules of her existence. You gradually develop a way to hear the unmistakable signature of God’s voiceprint on the particular frequency that you have arrived at in life.

All these years I have been talking to God in my prayers. But I should have done more listening instead. A lot more.

Ironically, receiving inspiration is unrelated to happiness or comfort. Some of the most gifted and accomplished artists and the most authentic saints endured lives of constant physical pain and unspeakable heartbreak. Worse is that it’s not even about being righteous because some who have done everything right are miserably poor, and there are others in big houses who have children with straight teeth, but who’s hearts are blacker than the inside of a goat. This part I’ve never figured out.

The only thing that can save me is perspective. Perspective is everything. You can either feel you are sitting in a dark room passively watching a television preacher preach and feeling detached, dissatisfied, even angry, or you can be inspired to the mountaintops  and find realworld revelations you can use in your life. You can either feel you are bowing to heaven before an offering table laden with your material wealth, or you can feel you are bowing to fruit. It’s your call.

Prayer-slash-meditation can result in instructing you to build an ark or go there and do that. But the best prayer changes your perspective A change in perspective alters your paradigm, puts more colors on your palette, enlarges your catcher’s mitt, so then you can feel confident to take your own initiative to build an ark or go there and do that.

I want to be a violin in the wind. Each person who is one in heart and mind with heaven, is also one in heart and mind with every other person in the world who is one in heart and mind with heaven. And heaven is meant to be here and now.

Thanks Larry, that was a beautiful read to finish our morning HDH,like a dessert after a good meal. Well at least I read it, my wife has gone to turn the bread machine on. It's helpful and true what you say about expanding the places and methods of prayer. My wife is never super keen when I try to get her to sit down and pray in stillness. She says she likes to pray when she is cooking or at the gym on the rowing machine.

Simon Cooper - 6 February 2010

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A time of repentance & forgiveness »

by Matthew Huish

Here is an article from BBC news about people in New York shredding documents, letters and photos in a public ceremony to mark “Good Riddance Day” and leave the bad memories of 2009 behind them.  It made me think about the Jewish New Year (a series of high holidays including Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur) during which there is a time for public  confessions of guilt and petitions for forgiveness.  Forgiveness is sought especially for wrongs done against God (which relates to one’s foundation of faith) and wrongs done against other human beings (relating to one’s foundation of substance).

I once received an email from a close Jewish friend around the time of the Jewish New Year in which he apologised for his short-comings during that year and sought forgiveness.  If I’m honest, I didn’t think he had anything to apologise for; nevertheless, I was moved by the gesture and it made me think about his heart of renewal at an important time for him and his faith community.

A quick search on wikipedia reveals that there are two Jewish verbs for repentance, שוב shuv (to return) and נחם nicham (to feel sorrow).  It’s hard to repent if you don’t actually feel sorrow – a sorrowless apology is shallow and meaningless, so the first step of repentance ought to involve an admission of guilt and feeling of remorse.  It is then that one determines to return to the pure state before the sin was committed (be it a sin of commission or a sin of omission).

The Greek word for repentance, μετάνοια (metanoia) literally means “after one’s mind”; if forgiveness is granted, the sin is forgotten in both the minds of the transgressor and the transgressed.  After reconciliation, you could say, “it’s behind me”.

I have often felt that our Unificationist community has been lacking in the area of forgiveness and reconciliation.  Perhaps because we set an absolute standard, any deviation from that standard is quickly rebuked and people feel the need to be squeaky clean all the time.  But making mistakes is all part of the process of growing up, picking yourself up when you fall over and learning from the experience.

Simba learns a valuable lesson from Rafiki

Simba learns a valuable lesson from Rafiki

Remember that moment in The Lion King (a film my children recently watch) where Rafiki the baboon hits the grown-up Simba on the head with a stick? Rafiki teaches Simba that although the pain remains, the act is in the past, and he can choose to run from it or to learn from it.  When Rafiki swings his stick again, Simba moves to avoid the stick.  This lesson inspired Simba to return to his pride and fulfil his regal responsibilities.

Grace and mercy are themes strong within the Christian community, and since our community has developed upon a Christian foundation, surely we should have inherited that spirit.  Perhaps because many of our leaders have come from Korea and Japan, where the Christian foundation is either young or absent, the culture created was missing these aspects.

As a Catholic, I went to confession on several occasions.  I must confess (excuse the pun) that I never really took confession seriously:

“Forgive me, Father, for I have sinned; it’s been a couple of months [more like 2 years] since my last confession… I hit my brother… I watch too much television… [quick, think of something else to say!] … erm, I didn’t go to mass last Sunday…”

But for many genuine Christians, the experience of being forgiven can be one of the pivotal moments in their life of faith, even the start of their journey of faith.  Upon reflection, my own life of faith is built upon one defining moment of reconciliation with myself and with God.  After that moment, I felt liberated to grow, prepared to err but not to rebuke myself for erring.  Learning to forgive myself has been the first step in learning how to forgive others, which is a lesson still being learnt.

There are some members of our worldwide Unificationist community who, after a request from Ye Jin Nim, are participating in a 21-day prayer condition of repentance.  Our national leader Mr Simon Cooper has suggested that we all do a 90-minute prayer some time before that start of 2010, and I hope it can be a liberating and cleansing experience for all of us.  I hope we can discover the humility to repent and the power to forgive.  If we are to perfect the realm of liberation and complete freedom in the Kingdom of God on Earth and in Heaven, I think these are traditions we need to strengthen.

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pins and needles …in a meeting »

by Simon Cooper

leaders meeting banner

I am sitting at a long dining table with 14 other people. They are all talking about good things, things that are meaningful; it’s not exactly a free for all, so people are taking their turn to share or express something about their experience towards the head of the table, this takes a long time, but as far as I can see there is nothing to fault their sincerity. But I am just not interested and cannot connect to what is of obvious value to them. In fact so much so I feel bored and frustrated and am thinking if I could just leave the table. (Probably how my kids feel when grandma tells them to not get down from the table until they finish their greens.) And now I feel uncomfortable, because if I am bored then I have to ask myself what is my relationship to these people, people that I work ‘with’.

Suddenly I go beyond my boredom. I realise in a moment that if I take these people to be my family, I don’t need to be interested in what they are saying to be at peace, to just be grateful that I can sit with them, to realise that in one way or another I love them.

And then everything seems to have changed. I have to try hard not to cry. (It is a relatively formal setting for goodness sake.) And then someone who I like to listen to but doesn’t normally like to talk in large groups starts talking, and what he shares is candid and personal and I am still able to be in the moment and I can sense the quality of the others around me even more. I catch the atmosphere in the room that I had over looked, that I had been blind to. And I am just grateful to be in the moment and be with these 14 people.

Then someone else starts talking, and speaking in vague spiritual generalisations about the ‘time we live in’, and I let go of the moment and am back in my narrowness. But it was worth it, and there is a residue of that peace swirling around me.

We all get up from the table.

I go and talk to a friend who is a bit down, and try to help them and cautiously offer them some encouragement, we say a prayer together.
Then I meet a doctor on the stair case, one of our German church leaders, I ask him about my bad leg problem, and he measures my legs against each other, sticks some needles in my hand, and looks at me in a way that makes me feel better already.

Meetings: they are what you make of them, and I am learning…..to not take them at face value.

changing my health almost in a moment

changing my health almost in a moment

Thank you Simon. I happen to be in the same meeting. Some of your reflections resonate deeply with my own thoughts and feelings. I congratulate you for realizing some very significant aspects one absolutely needs to have i. o. to make the best use of the kind of meeting which we as NLs periodically need to attend. Even for me as an "old hand" it is still difficult - or almost impossible - to get myself into a positive frame of mind before the the meeting. Having said that, I (almost)always feel transformed by the mere presence of my precious friends from all over Europe. The difficult part of this meetings is (for me) when I am repeatedly reminded of my own responsibility (or inadequate exercise of it) by simply listening to the reports and testimonies of the other leaders. That puts me back on track every-time. Usually I leave these meetings filled with profound gratitude and renewed pride to belong to this movement.

Peter Zoehrer - 3 November 2009

I love this little testimony....It's very meaningful

Rosemarie Leja - 6 December 2009

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a perspective on human life »

by Simon Cooper

One of the great strengths of the Divine Principle is that it explains so well the dynamic relationship between God and His children: that as human beings we need to both listen to God and at the same time determine our own personal destiny.

do you know your intrinsic qualities that are unique to you?

do you know your intrinsic qualities that are unique to you?

Just been doing my morning study: On page 1487 of the Cheon Song Gyong, Father (Reverend Moon) talks about this:

“Hence you need to look deep inside your mind and consider the intrinsic qualities you were born with originally, and by considering them, you should decide the future purpose that you will pursue. Though God may point you in the right direction, itis up to you to followit of your own accord.”

Then in the middle of page 1489 he explains why it is so important for us to pray and meditate, in order to keep our mind sharp and focused comparing it to how one would whet a knife constantly to keep it fit for purpose.

prayer and meditation are powerful tools to sharpen and focus the mind

prayer and meditation are powerful tools to sharpen and focus the mind

it is indeed a blessing that i am a co-creator, that i have the opportunity to create my own destiny, to be the architect of my future in the choices i make now. this is so relevant to me since i recently made a very personal decision, a choice between two paths which were equally valuable, but God trusted me to make my own mind up and pursue my personal interest. this required me to call upon the god within me. by exercising my freedom in the execution of this decision, i grow towards the god-like true man to which i aspire, making my heavenly father proud to see me becoming his true son. (eventually) thanks for this post - it resonated with me all the way in Rome

Matthew Huish - 16 July 2009

Thank you Matt, Yes, it is definitely a sophisticated task to encourage someone to listen to advice and a higher perspective, while at the same time provide them with the space through which they can make their own decisions and develop a strong sense of personal conviction and autonomy in their life. As a parent this is the challenge of helping children to build their character. I encouraged Damon to write a card this morning (on the last day of school) for his teacher cuz he rally enjoyed being in her class the last 2 years and i was very aware that it had to be his decision to ultimately do it, and that my role was to help him to see that it could be worthwhile. I tried to show him how to balance his feeling of being "too shy", with the happiness he would be giving his teacher. Anyway, he did it, although, he asked me to give her the card. I asked Lenny who doesn't have quite the same relationship with his teacher. And he just said flatly: "no." Decided not to pursue that one...we will probably get her something from us.

Simon Cooper - 17 July 2009

I agree Simon. As children are growing all the time a parent has to constantly shift and change the amount of control vs freedom. Complete laissez faire will damage a child just as much as being too dictatorial -- it is a fine balance or rather a perpetual state of trying to find balance.

Nigel Barrett - 17 July 2009

I like the Story of your children Simon. It is important that they feel they are making their own decisions in consultation and with loving education from their parent.

Jeff Bateman - 19 July 2009

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Claps of thunder, flashes of light and tall angels greet our meditation/prayer group! »

by Ron German
Meditation candle helps focus the mind

Meditation candle helps focus the mind

Every week our meditation & prayer group, of about 10 or 12 people, strives for that inner silence while gentle music plays in the background and the sweet smell of incence fills the room.  The guided meditation, which lasts for about 21 minutes enables the patricipants to share in a time of quiet and inner reflection while following the quiet voice of the group leader.  We close our eyes and are guided to – or some other place of the guide’s choosing – the sea where, facing out into the ocean, we feel ourselves carried on the sound of the surf gently lapping the golden sand.  Sea birds sing joyfully flying to and fro and while the wind is still we drift higher and higher into the realm of peaceful light.  Whoops! Wait a minute!  Did I say, “peaceful light?”  Clearly someone forgot it was supposed to be peaceful for as we all settled into our mystical inner worlds of peace and tranquility a flash of light and clap of thunder – enough to wake the dead, and even the sleeping, brought us all back to the world of reality.  Was it someone’s spirit meeting heavenly forces which reverberated through the group?  No such miracle!  Even as we met at the front door of our host’s house skies were dark and foreboding and the first rains were already starting to fall.  This was not going to be just any meditation night.  And so it turned out to be.  The meditation did, if fact go very well, but first we had to transcend the mundane world of fidgeting bodies, itchy cheeks and thoughts racing along like wild horses in the early stages as overhead a thunder storm did its very best to shake the quiet of our inner spaces.  So, as our meditation quietened the inner storm so the outer storm too was, eventually, quietened by our inner peace.

Our meditation is always followed by some sharing and then some unison prayer as we pour out our hearts for the sake of the world. Although our meditation and prayer were, ultimately, very deep, the sound of the thunder and the flashes of lightning was a stark contrast to our angelic experiences of the week before.

Last week, as we concluded our meditation & prayer evening with a unison prayer, one member of the group happened to look up and saw angels – each about eight feet tall standing next to each person praying.

deep prayer surrounded by beautiful angels

Deep prayer surrounded by beautiful angels

Each angel was of a specific colour that seemed relevant to the person they were standing next to.  As the angels stood they did so with their right arms outstretched and their hands resting on the head of each person praying – one angel to one person.  Were they carrying our prayers to God?  Were they passing some unseen spiritual energy into our bodies?   We couldn’t say for sure but it was such a nice change to end our prayer, not with the usual someone asking who would like tea or coffee but with someone sharing their vision of angels towering above us filling us with light.  And then we had our teas and coffees.

What had began almost two months ago as an informal prayer gathering has gained its own momentum now, enhanced by the meditation experience and the sharing of our hearts with one another, there is a real sense of brotherhood and fellowship as we each look forward to our next meeting and time of sharing together.

Written by Ron German in In the UK, Wales
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Thanks, Ron, I liked to read your article.

peter schroder - 2 July 2009

Hi Ron. Thanks for all your efforts and inspirational reports. How is Bangor doing? Any blessed family living there? In 1980 I did 40-day pioneering in Bangor and left part of my heart there. Love to all brothers & sisters in Wales.

Gina Suarez - 10 July 2009

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Prayer is Not Punishment »

by Nancy Jubb


Prayer
Originally uploaded by hyunju21

It’s not secret that hubby and I are hoping for kids in the future and it’s made me more aware of what it means to be a parent. I’ve been feeling a little broody about kids, observing other parents in their parenting styles, avidly watching SuperNanny (she’s changed my whole perspective on parenting methods), and reflecting on what it means to be a parent.

There is one parenting technique that I know that I will NOT adopt into our regime and that’s using prayer as punishment. As a pre-teen, I once observed a parent who forced their child to go pray in front of True Parents’ picture because they were caught stealing. Even from the age of 12 I recognized that this was going to breed problems later. Forcing children to pray when they’re being punished will only reinforce negative associations with prayer and might even plant or nurture seeds of resentment in the child’s heart.

Prayer is such an important part of our faith, a time for us to have alone with God to reach out and try to understand His heart. For 90% of the day, we more or less are unaware of Him so we set aside some time to really try and reach and connect. It’s a precious thing and I hope that Matthew and I will eventually be able to convey the value and heart behind it.

I know that you’re busy, but if you can, take just 1 minute to reach out and touch God’s heart right now.

Beautiful picture to match your comments...yes, let's adopt positive ways in every area of our life and culture!!!

Susan Crosthwaite - 25 June 2009

There are differents ways parents use to educate their children depending which one is easy and/or matches with a child`s level of faith.Taking a punishment as a restoration,a prayer considering in his simplistic sense,can help a child to restore in such a way his relationship with Parents/God...but this must be given in a spiritual atmosphere with explanations so that a child can understand why.

Mulotwa Ngama - 25 June 2009

I have never heard of that form of punishment before; on the surface of it, it sounds revolting. To impose involuntary prayer as a punishment would, as you describe, devalue prayer and not help the young child. It's somewhat analagous to a Catholic priest perscribing a penance (twelve "Hail Marys" and four "Our Fathers" every day for a week...) However, prayer can be a powerful form of forgiveness & reconciliation. I remember listening to a sermon by Rick Warren during which he talked about an occasion he confessed to his family members some of the sins weighing down his heart, after which the whole family prayed together, offering the confession and inviting God's grace. I hadn't thought about it in relation to raising my children, but perhaps this is something I will strive to do, that in the future, when they do something wrong, that I treat them fairly and firmly, with a true parental heart, but then pray together to resolve the situation and move forward.

Matthew Huish - 25 June 2009

Punishment is a very emotive term and, along with much else in human history, something that has been very misused. Punishment is not necessarily a bad thing. In our church we belive in indemnity or tangam -- and that incompasses punishment. Whether in society at large or in the home we punish with several possible aims: restitution (to pay back); deterance / prevention; rehabilitation; eductation; retribution (justice or to give what is deserved); and, often mistaken for the last one, revenge. Appart from revenge I believe all of these are valid and good if applied with wisdom and love. Of course that is the problem -- often it is with a spirit of vengance or at best not much wisdom or love. As Super Nanny and Nanny 911 show the application of love includes some form of punishment. When a child has left a mess the mess should be cleared up before moving on to the next activity. If the child does not want to do it then the tidy up is a bit of restitutional punishment. If they refuse then there is the next measured level. There always has to be a consequence -- that is educational punishment. I think we partially use the word indemnity or tangam to get around the historical problems with the word punishment. Prayer can be easy and fantastic but can also be indemnity and, in my experience, one of the most difficult forms of indemnity to do properly. It therefor can be punishment. But the mistake the parent in Nancy's blog made is prayer is not a form of punishment that can be applied -- it is only a form of indemnity that can be accepted.

Nigel Barrett - 27 June 2009

Prayer is a way to connect with God and with our True Self. In it's deepest form it is pure JOY! To make this analogous to punishment is a strange idea to me. We may make offerings or some form of penance in order to heal the rift WE feel between us and God but this cannot be demanded from us. It is something we have to make from our hearts. The most important part emotionally of our children's formative years is before the age of 3 years. So how we are living and loving our children at that time will play a key part in their future and this will include how they approach prayer later in their life. Thank you Nancy for this posting.

jeff Bateman - 30 June 2009

Geoff, you say "in it's deepest form it is pure JOY!" but when it is not in its deepest form what is it? How long does it sometimes take to get to that deepest form, when you have set a substantial time condition to the prayer how does your body sometimes feel? Father used to pray in the mountains at night in Korean mid winter with the spirit of pray or die -- why did he do that? I did not say that prayer was analogous to punishment I said that prayer was indemnity and indemnity has an element of punishment contained within it. The thing that prayer (as indemnity) is analogus to is perfect communion with God which I think is that which you call prayer in its deepest form. If you look up 'penance' it the dictionary: penance n 1 voluntary self-punishment to atone for a sin, crime, etc. 2 a feeling of regret for one's wrongdoings. 3 Christianity. 3a a punishment usually consisting of prayer, fasting, etc., undertaken voluntarily as an expression of penitence for sin. 3b a punishment of this kind imposed by church authority as a condition of absolution. ■ vb 4 (tr) (of ecclesiastical authorities) to impose a penance upon (a sinner). [C13: via Old French from Latin paenitentia repentance; related to Latin poena penalty]

Nigel Barrett - 1 July 2009

Hi Nige, What makes you think I was saying that you were making prayer analogous to Punishment? In reply to your question, my own experience is that there are different levels or depths of prayer and the pure joy may be reached through tremendous hardship and time or through just a whisper. I haven't found it predictable. Usually my prayer before say, a meal is not so profound and deep although I try to connect with sincerity, so I would say that it is a prayer (of offering) but I don't usually experience profound joy. But it is something maybe I could work on. Hope this goes some way in answering your question. I think this is a good thing to discuss and think about. So what's your own experience? BEST Jeff

jeff Bateman - 2 July 2009

Jeff I figured that you were either talking about me or you were talking about the parents in Nacy's blog and Nancy said that she thought they were using prayer as a punishment so that did not seem to fit. My comments were a bit more subtle about the point so I deducted you were responding to my comments. But all that is not important though it is worth being clear what you are responding to in this kind of forum because it is so easy to misunderstand and people do tend to take things very personally. Did you ansewr my question? Not really. I was responding to the title of the blog "prayer is not punishment" by giving evidence that it can be punishment, that historically it has been thought of in those terms and that there is nothing wrong with that. [from here not just aimed at Jeff] I have noticed over the years that many people in the UC have a problem with the word 'punishment' -- it seems to conjure up images of ruling by force and fear. Here are some words from Father: "Even in everyday life we can understand the need for repentance. For instance, if we hurt someone, perhaps our mothers, then we must apologise with tears. When a person does something wrong he is punished by being given some suffering and having his activity limited. By the pain of his suffering he must understand what he has done wrong" The Way of Tradition vIII, p80 #47. I take that quotation to mean that Father believes punishment is a good thing in certain circumstances. To apply that punishment the punisher requires wisdom, love, and even skill to achieve the desired outcome: true repentance. I doubt I could be brought to repentance by sitting on the 'naughty step' for five minutes but perhaps that is because I am over 50. They say one minute for each year of age so as I am over 50 lets round that down to a 40 mins. Yes, there is a chance there that I could find repentance. Actually sometimes it takes 40 days in Chung Pyung to find repentance, sometimes it can even take the suffering of Job. I suppose we could add the word 'true' to punishment to make it acceptable. Prayer can be a form of punishment but if it does not elicit true repentance then it may not be true punishment. Next question: will there be punishment in the Kingdom of Heaven?

Nigel Barrett - 5 July 2009

Well this is interesting! The Bateman family had Prayer and punishment as a topic tonight as out HDH study time. After reading the article and comments my TEN year olds son's comment was "It is not punishment to be sent to talk to my father so how can prayer be punishment?" Another sons comment was to clarify this issue of Indemnity and Punishment. This went something like Punishment is what you receive if you don't understand what you have done wrong. Indemnity (Tangam) is what you do to repair what you have done wrong. The German word for Indemnity helped me a lot to understand this = weidergutmachen (spelling may be wrong) meaning is "to make good again" Making something good may be a pleasant or unpleasant experience but often the later. If we live the wrong lifestyle we will experience punishment by the way our body reacts to that lifestyle. When we understand that we need to change something because of the "punishment" our body is receiving we will rethink the way we are living this is Repentance, "rethinking". Then we embark on an indemnity condition to restore our body to health.

jeff Bateman - 5 July 2009

thank you, to both Jeff & Nigel, for expanding on this thread. reading your comments bring back many memories, particulary of the lowest times in my life when i willingly embraced indemnity/punishment as a means to return to Heavenly Father. those experiences were not easy, nor were they always pleasant, but the end result was always liberating. i guess it's like tidying a room; you could leave it in a mess, or you could invest some time to make it tidy, and although the process might be frustrating, the end result is satisfying. accept when you're FORCED to tidy your room, but i must confess i'm an OCD tidy-freak, so i actually prefer having a tidy room!

Matthew Huish - 6 July 2009

One final comment. I always wondered why, when we prayed, we said: "I pray..." what do we mean by that word. I asked Rev Kwak and without any hesitation he said that "when you pray you have to think that you are putting yourself into objective position to God. We do not (as fallen people) naturally take an objective position to God so to some degree we have to force ourselves into that position." [I paraphrased] By using the word prayer we are acknowledging there is a problem. If there was no relational problem we would (or should) use a different word.

Nigel Barrett - 8 July 2009

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going to the gym »

by Chieko Cooper

Dear Sisters and brothers,

I did not go to the gym for a while, but recently I started to go early in the morning just for half an hour before the children wake up. The best thing about going there for me is I can do a very deep prayer while I am on the different machines. I am sure everyone is different, but for me this is a time when I can be together with God (just myself and God). Especially when I pray for somebody I can really do it well in that situation. It must be quite spooky to see someone on the rowing machine with half tears.

I think the best pasta for this cold weather is spaghetti Carbonara. It is a bit too high in protein and calories, but when I start to eat this I will finish my plate even though I am not so hungry.

(for one person)

Boil 100g of spaghetti  (de Cecco is the best) in plenty of salty, very boiling water. Meanwhile fry the cubes of bacon or pancetta (you can find them easily in the bacon section of any supermarket) in a big frying pan in a bit of olive oil. When it is brown (better to cook the slowly) turn off the heat.

When you have quickly drained the spaghetti add to the frying pan, and stir it so that the oil and bacon are mixed in and so that the spaghetti does not stick together. Put two raw egg yolks in the frying pan and again stir into the spaghetti and bacon.  This whole process should be done very quickly otherwise the egg will become too cooked with the heat. Then serve with lots of freshly ground pepper and parmesan cheese.

Have a good week,

Chieko

Chieko Cooper Written by Chieko Cooper in Blogs
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I enjoy meditating while running in the morning.

Matthew Huish - 23 December 2008

You getting me there: "... meditating while running in the morning." and "... on the rowing machine with half tears." !!! I have definitely to try that out! Yummy, Spaghetti Carbonara! Thanks for the inspiration.

Peter Schroder - 30 December 2008

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