It has been confirmed that our International President, Pastor Hyung Jin Nim and his wife, Yeon Ah Nim will come to the UK on Monday 23rd August and spend a few days here to meet brothers and sisters before going on to visit the rest of Europe.
I am sure you will all look forward to meet them with your families and guests, so let us all prepare well to receive them and inspire them.
FFWPU Annual Gathering at Cleeve House
We have decided to move the Annual Gathering in Cleeve House to Tuesday 24th August (originally set for Saturday 21st August) so that all our Blessed families can have a chance to meet with Pastor Hyung Jin Nim and Yeon Ah Nim in our own beautiful environment .
We did not want to miss our traditional summer Annual Gathering and it was thought difficult to gather UK members from all over the nation twice within a few days, so it seemed a wonderful opportunity to ask Hyung Jin Nim to speak to everyone at Cleeve on 24th. We have there facilities for the younger children to enjoy the bouncy castles, games, etc.
Please try to book time off work if you need to. More details will come soon.
I am on the flight backto London from Seoul and taking a bit of time to distil the last 4 or 5 days. It is essential for me to do this, in the context of sharing my thoughts with you, because I went on behalf of and to represent our UK church community. To post my conclusions here is important for me because I want to allow us to have a shared experience that articulates the vision for our church community over the next three years.
on the outside of the ground floor shrine for the 4 great saints
The world mission department staff did a great job taking care of all the national leaders. But when they asked for feedback on what to improve we gave them several suggestions. There was a severe case of information overload and by the end they also realised this. As a result of the multiple power points and case studies there was way too much talking at or to us rather than with us; generally there was a need to develop a more effective process of communication.
That was the toughest part for me to cope with and I regret that I was not more constructive in getting over those frustrations in the heat of the moment.
Aside from that I could salvage some interesting information which I will compile and send out over the next week or two.
Now here is what really made it all click into place:
morning devotion in the temple prayer room on Ahn Shi Il
We concluded our assembly this morning by attending the first Ahn Shil Il in the new ‘mega’ Unification Church temple. Hyung Jin and Yeon Ah Moon were there and he gave an almost one hour long message that washed away most of the frustrations from the previous days.
He spoke with a powerful honesty. Through charting for us his personal journey he cast a clear vision for the Unification Church.
He outlined the Unification Movement’s main problem: Insufficient faith in True Parents as the Lord of the Second Advent; a lack of personal daily awareness of how True Parents have saved our lives by dying for us again and again. He pointed to the fact that many members are not able to be openly proud of these truths as evidence of our need for deeper more personal faith. He pointed to the book of Acts as an example of the type of faith we should aspire to. He referred to himself as an apostle.
He outlined the solution to the problem with two elements: For each of us to get into a life of devotion which allows us to first see True Parents with our spiritual eyes, and secondly gives us the heart and conviction to bring people to accept True Parents as their saviour and lord.
But why us, and why now?
Father is 90 years old and is doing his very best to stick around and give us a chance to help him secure the future. It is us because True Parents have blessed us and given their lives for us more than for anyone else. In that way we are the bridge for True Parents to the world. If it is not us now, then who is it and when?
Pastor Hyung Jin Moon says thank you as he leaves
It is clear that pastor Hyung Jin Nim will keep on repeating this vision until is sticks. But what we must do is unpack it and bring it into a practical set of action steps for our community. We have to flesh it out so that we have a workable strategy and process which will empower each family member and give all of us the opportunity to fulfil the vision: Establishing True Parents as the Way, the Truth, and the Life for building the Kingdom.
I know we all have different approaches and styles of doing what we have got to get done. That is inevitable and fine. Nevertheless we need a recognisable rallying point for all of our efforts. The Sunday before I went to Korea I spoke about our HQ church’s main purpose. We need to focus on teaching the Divine Principle and bringing people to True Parents. We will do many things, but our clear and transparent objective and purpose should be to successfully do these two things.
Again this needs to be unpacked and articulated in more detail. But let us keep our eye on these two purposes and patiently, step by step, answer all the other questions that will spring up as we go along.
I had my video camera ready because I felt in that precious moment all of you needed to be there too! Here is part 1 of Hyun Jin Nim’s talk at Ahn Shi Il:
On the bus to Incheon airport after leaving the temple this morning I realised we have to thank the Japanese church members for Hyung Jin Nim. It is because of his experience with their faith in True Parents that he is able to provide authentic spiritual leadership. That is why sincere, genuine, personal, mature faith counts. We need those adjectives to qualify the noun, but let us nevertheless remember that faith counts and trumps personality, local culture, and any other relative human factors.
UNfortunately my video camera battery died. But God bless my iPhone, just it doesn’t have a zoom yet. Here is part 2 and 3 of Hyung Jin Nim’s very personal morning message, u might need to turn up the volume or use some headphones for volume:
thanks very much Simon for sharing these precious moments with all of us.
Robert Williamson - 25 February 2010
Thanks Simon for recording this - so precious to hear the words direct
Tim Miller - 25 February 2010
Dear Simon Cooper
God Bless You Simon!
And thank you so much for bringing Hyung Jin Nim with you back from your trip to Korea!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
... it is deeply, deeply deeply inspiring!
Thank You
God Bless You
ITPN
Jorgen
Jorgen Bramsen - 25 February 2010
Many thanks for your effort and sharing Simon.
Angus McDonald - 25 February 2010
Dear Simon Cooper,
Thanks for the sharing with film.
Rita Salaris - 25 February 2010
Thankyou so much Simon for really enabling us to be represented by you, and sharing this experience with us! Absolutely wonderful! liberating and refreshing to hear Hyung Jin Nim's words and feel his heart!
Susan Crosthwaite - 26 February 2010
AMAZING STUFF
Thank you so much for recording and sharing this precious stuff
Now I know why Heavenly Father gave us the internet and all the wonderful technology.
What a precious leader you have become Simon!!
:) thank you
Tim Huish - 26 February 2010
Hi Simon
thanks you sooooooo much for this, it is a revelation and I hope will enable us to make this nation great once again.
Derrick Davis - 26 February 2010
Thank you for posting this precious message from Hyung Jin Nim. I will watch this many times and share it with other brothers and sisters. Thanks, from Atlanta, Georgia.
Marilyn Eaton - 26 February 2010
Dear brother Simon,
many thanks and greetings also from a postcommunist country of Slovakia!
HJM proves me that only a person with a living, ressurrected heart can inspire and motivate other people, and bring them back to Heavenly and True Parents...
Dorota Simekova, Bratislava
Dorota Simekova - 27 February 2010
Thank you Simon for these links very moving, touching!!Event in France we read your comments, thank you for the efforts you made to cover the event up
Benedicte
Benedicte Suzuki - 28 February 2010
I dont buy into the whole
'we are not growing" thing.And I also dont buy into the whole "lack of faith in True parents" thing.Surely the ones still standing dont fit this.The difficulties stem from the center of the movement, not the periphery. The Principle itself suggests this(cause effect)
mark cleaver - 28 February 2010
Hi Simon,
thank you so much for all your deep sharing and videos. For people like us out in the sticks (Calgary,Canada), where the next church is over 1000km away, the wonders of media are what keep us spiritually uplifted and feeling connected to a true world family of brothers and sisters who really do care and want to make a difference. Please keep it up! God bless!
P.S. Maybe you remember us from Jeremy Spellers wedding.
Andrea Kuhn - 2 March 2010
Thank you for posting this! the Hannas are watching it for HDH this morning:)
Deborah - 3 March 2010
Dear Simon
Thank you for messages of Hyung Jin Nim. I do so love to hear him speak so lovingly of True Parents and how lucky I am to hear these words of wisdom. His voice is one we capture in our hearts and once heard it is not forgotten. I always am worried that I might miss something so keep looking back into my emails to check and to print off speeches so I can keep looking at them.
Susan Rothery Wednesday 3rd March 2010
Susan Rothery - 3 March 2010
Dear Simon Cooper,
Thank you for this News from Hyung jin nim and much moore
I am very greatfull to the son of REV;Moon and is wife for all the support. I think this Mann is a second Apostel of Vater Moon!!!I am very happy today to see God suffering coming to a end because I will tell a story to Mankind of True Parents even I am not the best Moonie from 1973 but I am A MOonie so God is my friend God bless America and the World and True Parents!!! Charles WALTER a French in Germany!!!!AJU!!!!PEACE
Walter Charles - 4 March 2010
@mark Clever: I think the point of cause and effect could be true in some respects, but the relationship is dynamic in terms of the centre and periphery. Of course Hyung Jin Nim also says that our Movement is the most successful tradition in terms of growing in the life time of the founder. But, at least on the growth issue I can say that in terms of numerical size of our community we have not increased particularly here in the UK over the last 20 years.
By the way, here is a much better version of the talk done on a high end camera by a proper cameraman, much better than my iPhone version: http://www.vimeo.com/9915570
Last night was a long night. In a room with lots of elder european brothers. A few times in the night I really thought I could have been in a jungle with a bunch of lions and tigers growling. We got to the peace palace at 6am. After 1 hour sitting on the floor waiting for pledge to start at 8am decided to go and sit on the chairs in the back with Daniel Bessell and Jack Corley. That was a saving grace. Big screen too so we could see everything fine and still walk by the time everything was finished.
True Parents looked well and happy. I had serious jet-lag still, but I do remember Father saying: “excuse me while I take some water. If I drink I am thirsty and if I smile it means I am happy. There, that is a short sermon.”
Barak Obamma sent a congratulatory message, and so did a number of other prominent people.
Later we had an early lunch down at Cheong Pyeong training centre. Most memorable bit: Kook Jin Moon was on the schedule to give a toast. He got up and said: “I have a confession of faith to make. True Parents are not only my physical parents but also my spiritual parents.” He went on to state clearly who they are as the returning Christ. Hyung Jin Moon did like wise in front of 1000 people. True Parents smiled, so I guess by what Father said in the morning this meant they were happy about this.
Hyung Jin Moon visits guests at True Parents birthday banquet
In the afternoon we had the opening session of the national leaders meeting. Kook Jin Moon, In Jin Moon, and Hyung Jin Moon all spoke. The spirit and message was strong and clear. Here are some of my notes:
“Our church policy is to declare True Parents for who they are, and if we do so perhaps Father will not feel the need to give marathon long talks, and then he can be more free to rest.”
“True Parents saved our life and that is why we declare them as our lord and saviour. We should get comfortable with that and start sharing that truth. I guarantee if you do, that it will change your life completely, and you will understand why people talk about being born again. Something changes inside of you, when you declare your faith.”
I could connect with the main message, but occasionally the case was not fully developed and some of the points were possibly not fully intended. Kook Jin Moon made the point that we are not here to be a social movement. But surely we want to be socially relevant. I think what he meant is that our primary purpose is to bring people to True Parents. Anyhow, that is when I started to feel v european. Talking with Daniel Bessel I realised that our default mode is to analyse, and when the rationale is woolly we get frustrated. My conclusion was that rather than get annoyed better to take on greater faith and then offer rational and thoughtful feedback.
One elder 2nd Generation Unificationist who must be around 30 now said to me in the bus that the denial of our faith generally leads to people losing it. He said that many of his friends who grew up being encoraged by their parents not to let people know that they were followers of Rev Moon, and Unification Church members tended to eventually drift away. While those who were open and honest tended to find it easier to stick around.
The other thing I am experiencing here is culture shock. Was never so aware of that before. I always came to Korea thinking this is Father’s nation. But I think I have arrived at a point of separating the two out. So now I am becoming aware of how alien Asian culture is for me. I think it is an important step in coming to understand the people in a more real way.
There was the usual thing when we were waiting for the above mentioned speakers to arrive in the room. The shear number of people involved in getting the mics ready, calling on their mobiles up stairs to see when they were coming down, starting a song, rechecking the mics, etc. And on the 4th set of mansai’s today I was not giving it quite the 100%. Just all very alien to my cultural background. I am sure I could learn a thing or two if I open my mind to it. But, can’t imagine what it must have been like for True Parents to live in the West for so many years and raise their family there. I guess I realised Father is not Korean, he is the Son of God. Big difference.
My memory of the dream is sketchy – I only remembered having the dream during my morning run some time after waking up. The significant feature of this dream was the presence of Hyun Jin Nim. I think I bumped into him in a cafeteria during a conference at which I had presented a report about the interfaith work I have done. We didn’t have a meaningful exchange, although he acknowledged my contribution to the conference. I had the feeling Hyun Jin Nim had a lot on his mind, so I respectfully gave him some space, but I felt happy and comfortable to be in his presence.
That’s all – nothing terribly significant on the surface of it. When I shared this dream with my wife, she then told me about a dream she had just had during the same morning:
Natasha was in a hospital bed being visited by many nurses although she was keen to be discharged. All of a sudden, Hyung Jin Nim appeared with a tray of food, offering her something to eat and drink. He encouraged her to rest and recover her strength. Natasha asked him if he didn’t have any more important things to do, and although Hyung Jin Nim did not answer the question directly, he simply smiled and continued serving her, wishing her a healthy recovery.
These dreams have been influenced by real-life situations: I recently sent a letter to Hyun Jin Nim, which perhaps has been read by now. Natasha recently spent a few frustrating nights in a hospital after undergoing a Caesarian-section when our 3rd child was born.
Interesting.
Coincidentally, this morning after my run, I continued my reading of A Bald Head and a Strawberry, which I picked up again recently. While I had many realisations in the few pages I read, these words jumped out of the page:
“If we hold the worldview that others are objects to satisfy our wants then fundamentally we poison our hearts. When they don’t give us any more satisfaction, we lose our interest, our compassion, our care for them. The relationship becomes conditional only on how well the other is pleasing us.
“This shows a fundamental ignorance to the fact that others, just like us, desire to find happiness and avoid pain.”
The last line in particular made me remember something. Doesn’t it remind you of a very familiar line from the Divine Principle? The first sentence, in fact, of the Exposition text reads “Everyone, without exception, is struggling to attain happiness and avoid misfortune”. Having recently spent some time with the STF witnessing team, during which time I helped them study the Introduction, this connection revealed a new level of meaning to a phrase I have studied and repeated countless times. Suddenly, the struggle to attain happiness and avoid misfortune was no longer MY struggle, but a struggle shared by every other human being. How could I be so arrogant to not recognise that others are struggling just as much as I am?
The next step is to realise that the members of the True Family are also struggling in this pursuit, to “find happiness and avoid pain”. I love Hyun Jin Nim and I love Hyung Jin Nim, or at least I want to love them. I hope the fact that Natasha and I are dreaming about these brothers demonstrates our passion for them and I hope we can serve and support them, and the entire True Family. As Hyun Jin Nim often encourages us:
“Together, we can dare to dream the greatest dream of all! Let us own the dream to create One Family Under God.”
Recently we have all been watching Reverend Hyung Jin Moon’s ‘Taiwan’ message about testifying to True Parents and being open and proud about who we are.
My main conclusion was that this needs a very full personal response in terms of evaluating, and reflecting on our faith. He says if my faith is weak, then I need to assess and evaluate it. So, simply to watch the speech online, and be excited by Rev. Hyung Jin Moon’s conviction is not the whole point.
We need to let people know that True Parents are on Earth, but we should allow them to experience their love, their wisdom their guidance and concern for all our lives.We need to absorb and then radiate God’s love just as when the sun shines on this planet.
when the light shines
That means much more than just talking to people. It means serving them.
When you look at yourself remember that God only made one of you. He doesn’t make copies, only originals. Remember that too, when you look at your family and community.
This year can be the year when we discover that we are, and never will be God’s ‘plan B’, but instead God shaped every single member of our congregation and put them in His church for a specific reason, and to be part of His ‘plan A’.
The abilities that God planted in each of us can really shine when we realise how to develop them and how to use them to testify to True Parents’ mission and life.
As a community we just have to get better at empowering each other.
One way I know I can do a lot better at radiating God’s love is by preparing more in my work, paying attention to the details, and working on my different projects with a lot more thought and prayer so that what I create is well designed.
When I look at what Pastor Hyung Jin is doing with the temple in Korea, I can see his motivation is to be able to testify more powerfully to True Parents. If we make our Lancaster Gate HQ a place to receive people and care for our members and guests, we can start to see it as place that personifies True Parents.
God wants to see you become someone who makes a unique contribution, based on your character, life experience, and abilities. God calls us all to serve. As we learn to serve, God comes to trust us and lets us see more of who we are and how we can fulfil our potential.
sunset tree, by Matthew Sawl. let us absorb God's love and radiate in our own special way
This is our FFWPU statement of purpose that we established around 12 months ago:
Statement of Purpose »
1. We share God’s blessing and True Parents’ message with others.
2. We create a spiritually secure community where people can enjoy fellowship as one family.
3. We empower people to discover and fulfil their calling to serve God and others.
I totally agree with your review of our response to Hyung Jin Nim messages in Taiwan. You bring up a really good point; witnessing is more than words. It is also service and character. These things were in my mind but could not express them.
You have got a gift. You master the English language and can express things very well, with precision and poetry. “Radiating God’s love as the sun shines on this planet” is such a beautiful comparison.
Although we speak of bringing in the Completed Testament Age, our culture was falling into the Old Testament again. So the question can arise, “Why did we digress into an Old Testament-like culture, and with that kind of culture how are we going to inherit the foundation of Christianity which is a universal religion?”
It is hard when you have been misunderstood for a long time to have a Christian attitude towards others, to not be sceptical of journalists who you don’t know, and of course we must not forget Jesus also said to be wise as a serpent, i.e. don’t be naive.
Having said that it would be wise for us to embrace the media and view them as our friends, and help them to get a better picture of who we are. That is one of the purposes of this website: to let people see what we actually do, say, and think as a community.
healthy communication - takes two to tango
The work that started with Tim Read and many others in years gone by and that has been carried on by our current media duo (Richard Biddlecombe and Nancy Jubb) has proven that when you reach out to people, even journalists, you build a healthy relationship.
I was surprised at one or two of the instant reactions on Facebook to the recent BBC article by Christopher Landau who interviewed Hyung Jin Moon recently. Despite the article having been objective and also helpful towards getting our actual message out to the public, there was an assumption that the journalist must have twisted some of his words.
No, I don’t think so. Personally, I want to thank Mr Landau for quoting our founder’s son so much and on so many different points. He didn’t have to do that, but he did.
I wouldn’t say he got the perfect angle or really hit the nail on the head when he mentioned the use of christian songs, as many of what we see as our holy songs are anyhow Korean christian hymns. But hey, its not my article.
At a time when we are trying to figure out what kind of movement we are, what True Parents’ legacy will be, what kind of a religious movement we are, etc, then to have an inquisitive and relatively objective media is only healthy and helpful. It actually forces us to be clear, articulate, and reflective.
"someone who seems determined to establish the faith founded by his father as a credible part of the religious landscape " BBC Quote.
He mentions in the article how Hyung Jin Nim is not afraid to bring in practices from already established religious traditions. This is a key point for us to first consider for ourselves and then to explain to others: we are nothing with out all the established traditions and what they have done for humanity over the millennium, and we honour all the saints of history whether they be Jewish, Budhist, Christian, or Muslim. True Father, Rev Moon’s, starting point was to respond to Jesus. The Divine Principle, our core teaching, is also born out of the Judeo-Christian scriptures. And there is the point for reflection: how many of us especially younger or more recent disciples like me have actually read the Old and New Testament?
So going back to the start. As disciples of True Parents when last did any of us contact our local media to let them know what we are doing in our work, in our community? If you would like to support our UK media team on the local level, get in touch. There is so much more we could be sharing about if we make the first step, and so much we will also learn about who we are when we start that give and take.
i agree that despite the factual inaccuracies that the article presents, it is part of a turning point in the way we are being seen by the media and the way the persepective of the public towards us is evolving. It isn't entirely a positive nor negative article but i think, like simon said, it's a chance for us to evaluate our position and relationship towards the media. also to see what we are doing and can do to develop that relationship. it also poses a very important and valid point of our rights as part of a civilised society. it's time our voice is heard clearly and with firm conviction, and to be empowered with our rights and pride as gods children.
yos - 8 October 2009
I think you are all doing a terrific job with the fireplace blog, keep at it!
Nicholas - 8 October 2009
Yes I agree that we need to be optimistic and not always doubt others. If we treat others (e.g. journalists) with respect they are more likely to do likewise. I think we also have to see that they want a story and help them to create the right one.
Jeff - 8 October 2009
I believe that the article was a very good one and definately a step forward when comparing it to the countless biased reports of unconventional church activities. This can only strengthen the credibility of Hyung Jin Nim and the kind of work that he wants to do. I am all for this kind of journalism, and to be recognised as a religion among many is a better platform to work from then (in the eyes of the media) as an isolated cult, it's membership exiled to the wastelands of unacceptable faith.
I'm a Moonie.
The day after the Annual Gathering was Ahn Shi Il. (Here’s a video of Michael Jenkins giving an explanation about Ahn Shi Il.)
My little family had spent the previous night in my parents’ home after my mum drove us back to London from Cleeve House. Natasha and I had agreed to wake up before 5am to attend the pledge service led by my parents. David had been sick on the day of the annual gathering, so after of an exhausting day of travelling, both my children slept heavily and the night was thankfully undisturbed. Nevertheless, waking up the next morning wasn’t easy (is it ever?)
After turning off my alarm, I rolled over to wake up my wife. She rarely gets up enthusiastically, so I wasn’t surprised by her resistance to leave her peaceful rest. After I got dressed in my smart clothes, Natasha was at least sitting up, so I went downstairs confident that Natasha would complete the waking-up process by herself.
As 5 o’clock arrived, I stood with my parents and my sister to offer the family pledge, but Natasha was embarrassingly absent. At first I thought she might just be late, hoping that she’d appear any minute to join us as we recited the Korean part of the pledge. As we began the English recitation, I conceded that she would not appear, imagining that she reclined after I had left the room and drifted back to sleep. The feeling of disappointment distracted my focus – I recited the words of the pledge but my heart wasn’t behind their meaning. It was after the fifth pledge that I became conscious of my hypocrisy: Although my body was attending the pledge service, my mind was as absent as Natasha.
The previous day, during the annual gathering Sunday Service, one of the points I took from Simon Cooper’s sermon was a question about what it means to be unconditional: Do I expect others to be religious just because I have chosen to be religious? In my relationship with Natasha, I should be cautious of applying the same religious expectations on Natasha as I do to myself. Conversely, I mustn’t blame Natasha if I fail to perform my responsibilities in the religious commitments I have made.
So after digesting my disappointment, I concluded that Natasha would be more tired than me because of her pregnancy, and even if she failed to come down to pledge this particular morning, I should be patient and allow her to come of her own volition while offering my own pledge to Heavenly Father with sincerity.
After the pledge service and a brief period of hoon dok hwe, I returned to the bedroom to get some more rest. There I found Natasha, dressed in her smart clothes and fully awake, indicating to me to be quiet as I entered the room. Natasha then explained in whispered words how, shortly after I had left the room, our daughter Olivia had woken up and that Natasha had spent all the time I was away putting her back to sleep. She fully intended to join the pledge service and was really disappointed that she couldn’t attend. I had been judging her all along when the reality was in fact entirely different!
Nevertheless, I had learned something through this experience and resolved to be more humble in my expectations of others. I know very well that I am NOT unconditional. I struggle to imagine loving people the way True Parents love people. Am I prepared to die 7 times (as described by Hyung Jin Nim) for the sake of my children? Of course we don’t deserve it, but True Parents do it anyway out of a parental heart. That is the standard to which I aspire, although I’m sure it will take a LONG time to get there.
very nice post. deep and thought provoking. it's a real pitfall to project expectations we have on ourselves onto others as well.
tkkanno - 2 September 2009
awww thats a very sweet story matthew, its like something you'd read out of a book from the "Chicken Soup for the Soul" series.
Matt Jubb - 4 September 2009
Thank you for a very profound message in its simplicity of describing the drama of realy living the Heaveny Culture in our simple daily life.
Shirley Kanno - 8 September 2009
"So after digesting my disappointment, I concluded that Natasha would be more tired than me because of her pregnancy, and even if she failed to come down to pledge this particular morning, I should be patient and allow her to come of her own volition while offering my own pledge to Heavenly Father with sincerity."
Thats great, i love it when quiet contemplation produces wisdom. Even harder when it's a wisdom against ones owns beliefs at the time. :)
(randomly found this while looking at links from facebook)
It’s not secret that hubby and I are hoping for kids in the future and it’s made me more aware of what it means to be a parent. I’ve been feeling a little broody about kids, observing other parents in their parenting styles, avidly watching SuperNanny (she’s changed my whole perspective on parenting methods), and reflecting on what it means to be a parent.
There is one parenting technique that I know that I will NOT adopt into our regime and that’s using prayer as punishment. As a pre-teen, I once observed a parent who forced their child to go pray in front of True Parents’ picture because they were caught stealing. Even from the age of 12 I recognized that this was going to breed problems later. Forcing children to pray when they’re being punished will only reinforce negative associations with prayer and might even plant or nurture seeds of resentment in the child’s heart.
Prayer is such an important part of our faith, a time for us to have alone with God to reach out and try to understand His heart. For 90% of the day, we more or less are unaware of Him so we set aside some time to really try and reach and connect. It’s a precious thing and I hope that Matthew and I will eventually be able to convey the value and heart behind it.
I know that you’re busy, but if you can, take just 1 minute to reach out and touch God’s heart right now.
Beautiful picture to match your comments...yes, let's adopt positive ways in every area of our life and culture!!!
Susan Crosthwaite - 25 June 2009
There are differents ways parents use to educate their children depending which one is easy and/or matches with a child`s level of faith.Taking a punishment as a restoration,a prayer considering in his simplistic sense,can help a child to restore in such a way his relationship with Parents/God...but this must be given in a spiritual atmosphere with explanations so that a child can understand why.
Mulotwa Ngama - 25 June 2009
I have never heard of that form of punishment before; on the surface of it, it sounds revolting.
To impose involuntary prayer as a punishment would, as you describe, devalue prayer and not help the young child. It's somewhat analagous to a Catholic priest perscribing a penance (twelve "Hail Marys" and four "Our Fathers" every day for a week...)
However, prayer can be a powerful form of forgiveness & reconciliation. I remember listening to a sermon by Rick Warren during which he talked about an occasion he confessed to his family members some of the sins weighing down his heart, after which the whole family prayed together, offering the confession and inviting God's grace.
I hadn't thought about it in relation to raising my children, but perhaps this is something I will strive to do, that in the future, when they do something wrong, that I treat them fairly and firmly, with a true parental heart, but then pray together to resolve the situation and move forward.
Matthew Huish - 25 June 2009
Punishment is a very emotive term and, along with much else in human history, something that has been very misused. Punishment is not necessarily a bad thing. In our church we belive in indemnity or tangam -- and that incompasses punishment.
Whether in society at large or in the home we punish with several possible aims: restitution (to pay back); deterance / prevention; rehabilitation; eductation; retribution (justice or to give what is deserved); and, often mistaken for the last one, revenge. Appart from revenge I believe all of these are valid and good if applied with wisdom and love. Of course that is the problem -- often it is with a spirit of vengance or at best not much wisdom or love.
As Super Nanny and Nanny 911 show the application of love includes some form of punishment. When a child has left a mess the mess should be cleared up before moving on to the next activity. If the child does not want to do it then the tidy up is a bit of restitutional punishment. If they refuse then there is the next measured level. There always has to be a consequence -- that is educational punishment.
I think we partially use the word indemnity or tangam to get around the historical problems with the word punishment. Prayer can be easy and fantastic but can also be indemnity and, in my experience, one of the most difficult forms of indemnity to do properly. It therefor can be punishment. But the mistake the parent in Nancy's blog made is prayer is not a form of punishment that can be applied -- it is only a form of indemnity that can be accepted.
Nigel Barrett - 27 June 2009
Prayer is a way to connect with God and with our True Self. In it's deepest form it is pure JOY!
To make this analogous to punishment is a strange idea to me.
We may make offerings or some form of penance in order to heal the rift WE feel between us and God but this cannot be demanded from us. It is something we have to make from our hearts.
The most important part emotionally of our children's formative years is before the age of 3 years. So how we are living and loving our children at that time will play a key part in their future and this will include how they approach prayer later in their life.
Thank you Nancy for this posting.
jeff Bateman - 30 June 2009
Geoff, you say "in it's deepest form it is pure JOY!" but when it is not in its deepest form what is it? How long does it sometimes take to get to that deepest form, when you have set a substantial time condition to the prayer how does your body sometimes feel? Father used to pray in the mountains at night in Korean mid winter with the spirit of pray or die -- why did he do that?
I did not say that prayer was analogous to punishment I said that prayer was indemnity and indemnity has an element of punishment contained within it. The thing that prayer (as indemnity) is analogus to is perfect communion with God which I think is that which you call prayer in its deepest form. If you look up 'penance' it the dictionary:
penance n 1 voluntary self-punishment to atone for a sin, crime, etc. 2 a feeling of regret for one's wrongdoings. 3 Christianity. 3a a punishment usually consisting of prayer, fasting, etc., undertaken voluntarily as an expression of penitence for sin. 3b a punishment of this kind imposed by church authority as a condition of absolution. ■ vb 4 (tr) (of ecclesiastical authorities) to impose a penance upon (a sinner). [C13: via Old French from Latin paenitentia repentance; related to Latin poena penalty]
Nigel Barrett - 1 July 2009
Hi Nige,
What makes you think I was saying that you were making prayer analogous to Punishment?
In reply to your question, my own experience is that there are different levels or depths of prayer and the pure joy may be reached through tremendous hardship and time or through just a whisper. I haven't found it predictable. Usually my prayer before say, a meal is not so profound and deep although I try to connect with sincerity, so I would say that it is a prayer (of offering) but I don't usually experience profound joy. But it is something maybe I could work on.
Hope this goes some way in answering your question.
I think this is a good thing to discuss and think about. So what's your own experience?
BEST
Jeff
jeff Bateman - 2 July 2009
Jeff
I figured that you were either talking about me or you were talking about the parents in Nacy's blog and Nancy said that she thought they were using prayer as a punishment so that did not seem to fit. My comments were a bit more subtle about the point so I deducted you were responding to my comments. But all that is not important though it is worth being clear what you are responding to in this kind of forum because it is so easy to misunderstand and people do tend to take things very personally.
Did you ansewr my question? Not really. I was responding to the title of the blog "prayer is not punishment" by giving evidence that it can be punishment, that historically it has been thought of in those terms and that there is nothing wrong with that.
[from here not just aimed at Jeff]
I have noticed over the years that many people in the UC have a problem with the word 'punishment' -- it seems to conjure up images of ruling by force and fear. Here are some words from Father:
"Even in everyday life we can understand the need for repentance. For instance, if we hurt someone, perhaps our mothers, then we must apologise with tears. When a person does something wrong he is punished by being given some suffering and having his activity limited. By the pain of his suffering he must understand what he has done wrong" The Way of Tradition vIII, p80 #47.
I take that quotation to mean that Father believes punishment is a good thing in certain circumstances. To apply that punishment the punisher requires wisdom, love, and even skill to achieve the desired outcome: true repentance. I doubt I could be brought to repentance by sitting on the 'naughty step' for five minutes but perhaps that is because I am over 50. They say one minute for each year of age so as I am over 50 lets round that down to a 40 mins. Yes, there is a chance there that I could find repentance. Actually sometimes it takes 40 days in Chung Pyung to find repentance, sometimes it can even take the suffering of Job.
I suppose we could add the word 'true' to punishment to make it acceptable. Prayer can be a form of punishment but if it does not elicit true repentance then it may not be true punishment.
Next question: will there be punishment in the Kingdom of Heaven?
Nigel Barrett - 5 July 2009
Well this is interesting! The Bateman family had Prayer and punishment as a topic tonight as out HDH study time.
After reading the article and comments my TEN year olds son's comment was "It is not punishment to be sent to talk to my father so how can prayer be punishment?"
Another sons comment was to clarify this issue of Indemnity and Punishment. This went something like Punishment is what you receive if you don't understand what you have done wrong. Indemnity (Tangam) is what you do to repair what you have done wrong.
The German word for Indemnity helped me a lot to understand this = weidergutmachen (spelling may be wrong) meaning is "to make good again" Making something good may be a pleasant or unpleasant experience but often the later.
If we live the wrong lifestyle we will experience punishment by the way our body reacts to that lifestyle. When we understand that we need to change something because of the "punishment" our body is receiving we will rethink the way we are living this is Repentance, "rethinking". Then we embark on an indemnity condition to restore our body to health.
jeff Bateman - 5 July 2009
thank you, to both Jeff & Nigel, for expanding on this thread. reading your comments bring back many memories, particulary of the lowest times in my life when i willingly embraced indemnity/punishment as a means to return to Heavenly Father. those experiences were not easy, nor were they always pleasant, but the end result was always liberating. i guess it's like tidying a room; you could leave it in a mess, or you could invest some time to make it tidy, and although the process might be frustrating, the end result is satisfying. accept when you're FORCED to tidy your room, but i must confess i'm an OCD tidy-freak, so i actually prefer having a tidy room!
Matthew Huish - 6 July 2009
One final comment. I always wondered why, when we prayed, we said: "I pray..." what do we mean by that word. I asked Rev Kwak and without any hesitation he said that "when you pray you have to think that you are putting yourself into objective position to God. We do not (as fallen people) naturally take an objective position to God so to some degree we have to force ourselves into that position." [I paraphrased] By using the word prayer we are acknowledging there is a problem. If there was no relational problem we would (or should) use a different word.
Happy Ahn Shi Il. I hope you have a good week ahead of you. I want to report to you. As we all experience, reporting is not always an easy thing to do. However, if we don’t communicate regularly with the people in our life we end up as an island, and that will always be our own doing, not someone else’s. It’s all the more ironic if we live on an island, as you and I do.
As it is over a month since I wrote any communication, please forgive me for missing out a lot of stuff.
Attending the 7 day Divine Principle workshop in September reminded me to always try to be a beginner in my attitude towards learning. I went originally to take some notes from the power point slides so that I can use them more effectively. I also wanted to support what I think is an important project which David Hanna is developing through the education department. However, I realised eventually that actually I was mainly there to participate and to go through my own spiritual journey, which is what happens when we actively listen to God’s word. It helped me to take a better look at myself. If you would like to go there is another 7 days just before Christmas (15th Dec- 21st Dec.)It is different.
I have been keeping my commitment to the small group study program some of us hold in our HQs in Lancaster Gate. We study a chapter of Hyung Jin Nim’s new book each week, practice the exercises that he outlines, and then discuss our progress. The advantage that regular study brings is that it allows us to start applying what we learn in our daily life. And if we do that with other people, we are able to create fellowship in our life: a social experience where we hear God’s gentle voice, and feel his warm embrace.
Last week at Sunday Service I realised how if we don’t have other structures and processes established for our community Sunday can become a hub for all information. I have been researching what Hyung Jin Nim is doing and discussing and planning with our regional pastors how we can establish small group programs where we can share our faith with each other, and also with friends, and neighbours, colleagues, etc. Would you like to feel the church coming back into your home? If not then it is probably good to get out and visit other people’s places of worship. Either way it is important to experience fellowship in our life.
I had my interfaith rebirth experience recently when I was invited to give a talk at the UCL interfaith society, which was pioneered by some of our recent CARP students. Talking to the new society president, who is a Hindu, we found out we went to the same school many years ago, well at least many years ago for me. I had a power point that I had used in Paraguay and many of the ideas were sourced from a talk my genius Muslim friend, Zishan, had given at a Faithlink weekend. I hadn’t realised he had also been invited to speak on this occasion. As I got to speak first I warned everyone that any content that Zishan gave which repeated what I had just said was probably originally from him. What a great way to compliment a friend!
Over all I would like to report one key lesson from the last month or so: I am realising what I am good at and where I experience confidence. I am also much more aware of many areas in which I am weak, lacking, and not confident. Both these matters are down to things like my character, my experience, my aptitude, etc. But most of all I am grateful for the ability to become more aware and the opportunity that awareness gives me to grow. Thank you to all of you for your kind words when I meet you, your understanding, and encouragement. It is an honour to be part of your community.
I would like to say quite a lot to you about November 22nd. But I will try to do that next time, hopefully v soon. Take care, and God bless you.
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